confusion of Tomboys

topic posted Fri, December 17, 2004 - 4:02 PM by  Ariel
Hi everybody, it's me Ariel, first off I would like to say this tribe if full of wonderful people. I'm so glad to have the invite, and this rocks, glad to be a part of this tribe.

Yesterday, I had an interesting experience. This guy I know, who I see often at the Castro Country Club who's kinda an asshole, kinda sexually inappropriate, but also at times very funny and an enjoyable person to play spades with from time to time approached me and spoke to me a little bit. He argued with what my identity is, yet again, though I've explained that I'm a genderqueer lesbian. I havn't really talked to him much about being intersexed, he's kinda hard headed and most likely wouldn't understand. Another friend, who's an artist and a binary gay male does a lot of naked gay male sensual art. Particularly, muscular men between the ages of early 20's to late 30's sensual pictures. Tattoos seems to also be a theme that each person has in his sketches. He is a very good artist, and I enjoy looking at his art. Partially cause I do some of the same art, just with female bodied people, havn't yet gotten freehand down, nor "expert shading" but outlines and contours of the body comes naturally to me when drawing. Though I don't think I'm good enough to actually want to draw female bodied models, I usually just shuffle through my porn magazines, find a good picture at the moment and attempt to draw the picture. ID myself as a silver rose omnisexual lesbian, it's definitely a dual enjoyment.
Anyway, what ended up happening is I asked this fellow artist if I could see what he's done so far, and expressed my gratitude about the art piece. When the time approached around closing. The other man, who had just finished up another game of spades, walked over to me and started talking about how yummy men are and assumed I agreed with him on the matter. Of course depending on the indivisual I can have different kind of sensuality with them. Though with male bodied people I have strong limitations for many reasons. I have mislead men in the past, particularly, male binary folks. When I told him that I'm a lesbian/dyke(I do consider myself a dyke as well, more on that later) and a tomboy. He responded with
"I thought you wanted to see, girl you confuse me, first your a lesbian then your not. You confuse me, but I still love ya."
He then walked off before I could respond much, I told him I've always been a lesbian, and was going to point out to him that I was just admiring art for art. He left briskly and laughed to me jokingly. Only recently coming to terms with being intersexed and realizing that my parents and/or doctors picked me to be male sexed. Which of course never really worked as they intended to, I've only begun to accept this about me no more then three weeks ago, almost four. Regardless, the fact that I definitely fit comfortably in the femme butch tomboy catagory seems to baffle a lot of people. Especially binary gay men. It's almost like they want me to be something different. I don't especially mind the confusion, sometimes it's comfortable sometimes it's not. This particular time he was very nonchallant and has always spoken to me like he knows everything about anybody. He seems to not be able to grasp who I am and it drives him crazy, and he responds somewhat demeaning. He also makes implications to me as if he can somehow change who I am, tempt me to be straight, to be bi, to be male, to be feminine. Which is definitely uncomfortable.

Has anybody else had experiences like this?

How did you handle it?

How do you cope with the confusion that others have about us?

Hope conversations can come from this.

Hugs,

Sincerly,
Ariel Archaicflame
posted by:
Ariel
SF Bay Area
  • Re: confusion of Tomboys

    Mon, December 27, 2004 - 5:12 PM
    hi ariel!
    thanks for making a post. i have great hopes for uniting tomboys, but haven't had adequate internet access to post anything for a while!
    it seems like a lot of weird experiences have to do with the way one dresses or cuts one's hair. People make so many assumptions based on cloth and dead cells. like, men and women usually assume i'm a lesbian because i'm pretty butch. so women hit on me and men don't - this in itself isn't THAT bad. But girls who LOOK like lesbians get just as much violence and insults as those who are known to actually be lesbians, you know what i mean?
    i'm at my parents' house right now, in frigid wisconsin. my mom wants me to get my picture taken with my little brother at sears or some place like that, and i wouldn't mind it, but she's talking about, like, buying clothes for it. "maybe i could just borrow something of dad's" i said, and she scowled at me and said we could go shopping beforehand. i told my parents i felt like a guy and they were really adamant that women can be "masculine" and still be women... but when it comes down to it they don't want me wearing men's clothes and make a point to tell people i'm a girl when they address me as "sir'. Why make a damn scene about it?
    anyway, that's why i wanted to start a group like this. because all women are victims of gender oppression. (as are all men) But women read as masculine or just confusing face different challenges. also women who look like they're "supposed" to but who want to go to football games without fear, etc, or learn how to fix their cars but can't find a mechanic to teach them without just doing everything for them...
    right now i'm feeling really confused about being a tomboy in love. ok, so i'm not in love... and most of the time i try to convince myself that i have no sexual urges... but i saw this guy recently and i was just floored, for no reason at all other than energy exchange or whatever... but i couldn't imagine- i mean, i have a lot of trouble talking about this to people or pursuing relationships because ALL of my relationships have broken up at least partially because i'm "too masculine" or they think i'm trying to put forth a "tough facade" or "hiding my inner femininity" which i just don't fucking HAVE. And, i just expent that all guys are going to be disgusted with me.
    in general i've found that being aggressive, or rather assertive, sexually or romantically is judged harshly when you're female. guys just run away.
    anyway, ariel, i'd love to see your art.
    • dr.
      dr.
      offline 7

      Re: confusion of Tomboys

      Sat, January 8, 2005 - 9:36 PM
      so glad to join you....

      My experience....I didn't identify as butch right away after coming out at 16 because i didn't feel tough enough to garner the label....kind of a punky tomboy i was..... and I knew I was no stone....
      As a result i had trouble identifying what i really wanted from a partner, and ended up dating some other tomboys and butch types in what i now see as an attempt to develop a decidedly queer identity.....these relationships were rocky at best....
      After many trials and tribulations, i had given up lesbo sex all together (4 years!) out of sheer frustration.... when i met a goddess, my first true femme...she not only loved and praised my tomboyishness, but saw through to my butch daddy heart, and even encourages femme dress-up now and then too.....the sex hasn't cooled off in three years (and counting).
    • Re: confusion of Tomboys

      Sun, January 9, 2005 - 5:55 PM
      this is actually a reply to keeter but the screen is messed up at the bottom of that message.
      nice to meet you! sorry to deny you earlier, i'm having trouble keeping up without any real access to the web. punky tomboys are the best! welcome!

      • dr.
        dr.
        offline 7

        Re: confusion of Tomboys

        Sun, January 9, 2005 - 8:23 PM
        Thanks,

        Fringe..Your situation sounds stifling at best.....i hope you make it through unscathed!
        Family is the toughest to deal with, at least you've been open and honest with them; most of my family knows virtually nothing about my life or my identity because of these very issues (but with the old HOMO sexualism thrown in to boot).
        It is good to stay in contact with your family, but you must be true to your best self in the process...and in the end you will honor those who raised you.

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